Author Topic: Piling On on a Krox?  (Read 8241 times)

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Offline Gimli

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Piling On on a Krox?
« on: August 07, 2013, 02:24:12 PM »
I've a SF Guard Krox who I hope one day will get his third skill.  If it's a normal skill, is Piling On a viable choice?   It will never, on its own, cause a Turn Over, and will likely double his rate of Casualties.  On the other hand, I'm sure he'll Bonehead and fail to get up at exactly the wrong time.   Grab, doesn't, well, grab me, and Break Tackle with a Loner seems like an invitation to Nuffle to roll a 1.  Or should I retire him if he doesn't get a double on his third skill, and Block? 

Offline Warpstone

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2013, 02:32:00 PM »
Grab on the Krox and Sidestep on a Skink will go a long way towards a one-turn touchdown...

Piling on is fine too, but his lifespan will likely be shorter given how foul-happy B-League should be. 8)
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Offline endycarus

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2013, 03:11:01 PM »
Piling On doesn't mix well with Guard. I think Stand Firm and Grab fit well with your existing skill choice. I do recommend Piling On for big guys, just not if you have already started on the Guard path.
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Offline Rimmer

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2013, 05:37:24 PM »
I'd take break tackle.  Works well with prehensile tail and it can occasionally be a nice surprise.

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Offline NitNit

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2013, 07:06:13 PM »
Don't take PO. You want to keep that guard and tail active.

I'm a big fan of break tackle - even on a loner.

You don't have to use it every turn. More importantly is that it plays a lot on your opponents psychology, as he is forced to see your Krox as a potential ST5 blitzer every turn.
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Offline Majyk (Wholly HighstepperZ / Drunk Hellmoots)

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 07:07:08 PM »
I'd take break tackle.  Works well with prehensile tail and it can occasionally be a nice surprise.

Agreed, coupled with SF even a blitz isn't guanteed to remove a mark like this, forcing that -1Dodge from a piece in scoring range.
Lizzies are all about mobility and Break Tackle will help open things up for a control game vs having to leave him alone or Bash and that's it.

Then again, I don't mind Multiple Block/Grab combos, too!

Offline keggiemckill

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 07:37:06 PM »
I've never regretted piling awn. Ive only regretted not piling awn.

Words of wisdom there. In my opinion, Piling on works just as well as guard, because no one wants to mark the guy in fear of getting piled awn. It's also the reason not to take Break Tackle.
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Offline Blammaham

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 09:01:57 PM »
The Krox SHOULD be the last guy you want Piling on, on. The mere fact that it is a question is MORE proof to me that PO is too good. piling on negates his tail, his gaurd and his pitch position, but it probably is a good choice for him. :( S.

Offline Mike Lawrence

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 09:30:27 PM »
Take pile on.
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Offline Lord Chaos

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2013, 05:46:39 AM »
Murray, if the Krox fails his bonehead, it doesn't matter if he is laying down cause of piling on or not. He'll be just as useless as standing if he is bonehead. ;)

As far as "is it useful?" I think it is. I agree with Steve that it messes up guard, the tail and position but I disagree with the Krox being the "last guy" you want to use it with. He is one of the fastest moving big guys so if he does pile on, he still gets up and moves 3. And you don't have to use it if you don't want to. if it fucks up the play and leaves a gap, then don't use it. Wait for the games when you are up guys on the pitch or when the Krox is spread out and out of position of the play.

Grab on the other hand is a great skill for big guys and Lizzies period. For one, grab creates more hits for the Krox as you can keep the opponent next to the Krox. Two, like someone said it's great for the one turn push play. Grab lets you have 2 cracks at it and you don't have to rely on the blitz to make it happen. I had it on a Saurus before he died and I am waiting to get it on another with my Goofs as it is a key skill in the one turn push play.
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Offline Rimmer

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2013, 07:49:07 AM »
This is an interesting question, and it really comes down to coaching preference and how your team operates.

Here are the main options and my thoughts on each

1) Break Tackle

High risk, high reward type of skill.  Combos well with guard and the tail.  The issue is you have 2 chances of failure (1 for bone head, 1 for the break tackle roll) on a loner player.  This is mitigated if you use him mainly as a mobile roadblock (not a big deal if you do this at the end of the turn and you fail).  It is a big deal if you blitz a lot with him.  I would suspect you have other players to blitz with as a saurus is generally more reliable.  Looking at your team, you have a frenzy, block, break tackle saurus so I would use a break tackle Krox as a roving pain in the ass.  Also note you have no other gaurd so this one player with gaurd is important.

2) Piling On

This can be used aggressivly or cautiously.  Aggressivly (reroll everything that fails) would give more casualties but you will be losing your gaurd a lot.  I think this would be a poor move for this team as it is built now.  Using it cautiously (only on inj rolls, end of halfs, important players you need to hurt) is a better option and a viable one.    You can also argue that as he has thick skull he is more resistent to fouls (a good plus for a piling on player)

3) Grab

I don't have alot of experience with this skill.  I think it is an interesting option and is something you can use each time you block so at least you will get a feel for it and you won't feel like it is a wasted skill (i.e. you take break tackle and are too scared to use it).  Grab may also help skinks run through lines or make an opening for a saurus.

4) Multiple block

Wasted skill on this team.  No other gaurds to support it.  Also doubles your chance of a poor block.

Looking at your team, I would take grab or break tackle.  I don't like piling on as he is your only guard player.  A ST 5 gaurd / SF / P Tail player wants to be standing and irritating your opponent.  Your team is about keeping high ST on the pitch and making it tough for your opponent to break through.  If you want a piling on monster, use a saurus (or preferable two).

I would take grab if you are a cautious coach.  I would take break tackle if you like to use the Krox aggresivly.

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Offline Rimmer

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #11 on: August 08, 2013, 07:51:55 AM »
You also asked if you should retire him if he doesn't get a double.  I wouldn't.  It takes a long time to get to this level.  I also don't think there is anything wrong with a 3 skill Krox.
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Offline Gimli

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #12 on: August 08, 2013, 08:32:25 AM »
Wow, thanks for all the good advice.  John, I think you broke down the skill choices quite clearly and thoughtfully. Being the cautious soul that I am, I'm inclined to think I will go with Grab, but I'd like to understand better how it helps the 1TTD  push play. 

When I do a push play I have a blitzer come around the rear of the opponent's LOS, and then push the other player across the LOS onto my SS skink.  Then, a player placed besides the other player, who is now on my side of the LOS, pushes the Skink one (sometimes two) more time (s).  Does Grab help by avoiding having to get behind the other player's LOS?  I assume that must be the case.

And here's another brainteaser.  If I double with the Krox, do I take Block, or Pro (to reduce the number of Boneheads)?  I'm 99% sure I'd take Block, but has anyone  ever gone the other way?

Offline gollumullog (Phlegraean Marauders)

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2013, 08:46:02 AM »
Here is the best breakdown of OTT I've seen: http://fumbbl.com/help:OTT

For grab specifically look at the Skaven 5 player description: http://fumbbl.com/help:SkOTT4

Grab allows you to pull the opposing player into your side of the LOS, which allows you to push your sidestepper (or normal player with help).  It helps because no matter the opposing setup you can start a OTT play without crazy dodge blitzes to start it.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2013, 08:50:17 AM by gollumullog (Phelegraean Marauders & Death Runs Faster) »
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Offline Rimmer

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Re: Piling On on a Krox?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2013, 08:56:46 AM »
Take Block.  Pro does synergize a bit with a Break tackle / SF / Guard Krox but Block is just far too useful. 

I think Pro for big guys is mostly as a second double or if you are making a TTM specialist on an ogre / halfling team.
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