Author Topic: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?  (Read 8936 times)

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Offline Gimli

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Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« on: June 02, 2013, 03:52:06 PM »
I've been looking at teams for Seasons 15 and 16, and have been toying with the idea of an Underworld team.  I play a couple of them online (Cyanide) in matchmaking open leagues, one of which is restricted to "no bash" teams.  I quite like playing with them, and have had relative success with them, even in the unrestricted league where I have to deal with dwarves, chaos dwarves, etc.  Yet if you look at the Thunderbowl statistics, even our best coaches can't seem to make a go of Underworld in Tabletop (TT). 

Underworld seems to be a Skaven team with a worse Big Guy, and goblins instead of gutter runners.  You also have to deal with Animosity, no Regen (except on Troll) and expensive TRR (70).  All this so you can get regular access to Mutations. 

Online, I can't seem to keep my  goblins alive after getting more than one skill.  (I give them all 2 heads as their first regular skill.)  I give the Blitzers and the  Troll Claw as soon as I can to create a little room, but I've had a number of games where you get ground down quickly.

What's the consensus on Underworld?  Can they only survive in the hothouse of online play where a team can be developed (and discarded) quickly?

Offline Majyk (Wholly HighstepperZ / Drunk Hellmoots)

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2013, 06:08:55 PM »
In listening to the 3DB podcast on 'em, they mention how the team is to being strong on their own turn as Nurgle is NOT on theirs for the Mutations they can develop(Two Heads for 2+Stunty Dodges sounds like a VERY Fun thing to have on a Blitz kickoff event!).

I ended up using them in the Team Challenge of the U2KR Thunderkrunch tourney a year ago and didn't like them due to taking only Gobbos on the team to compete on an all-Stunty team(that subsequently became non-Stunty on game day, LOL!).

That said, Adams and I were talking about it last night between rounds II and III of DeathBowl, and do like the Mutation access for the Big Guy and Blitzers especially(and Two Heads and Horns on a Gobbo to 2+ break a cage for a typical 1DBlock is awesomesauce).

Animosity and AV7(and 0-12 Stunty) aside, they definitely seem like a fun team.

In playing 'Zons in our TB FUMBBL league, AV7 can be a cruel yoke, but games where nothing goes right and you're pounded upon by "jerk"-Tackle/MB teams do happen and cripple even those 'Tier 1/2' teams.
Heck, everyone knows my Chaos team's fragility vs Dr. Evil's CD team first game of the season last year so it happens...though understandably more often to those lesser AV'd teams.

I'd have a go on 'em.

Offline Rimmer

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2013, 05:29:04 AM »
I played them for two seasons, and they are a challenging, but rewarding team.  They have never been a tier 3 team.  They are tier 2.  Tier 3 is Ogres, Goblins, and Halfings.  Tier 2 is stuff like Vampaires and Chaos Pact.

It is a fun team but they can and will be frustrating in the long term.  The AV 7 and stunty will mean a lot of attritician in B league and at times, even in C league.  But you can dish it out with your own glass cannons as you can get Claw / Mb yourself. 

One thing I find is that the team can be misleading on paper.  Wow, all those mutated goblins will be awesome.  There are two problems with this.  They rarely live long to get awesome, and unlike regular goblin teams, you have other options to score.  Those options move faster and score more often, thus reducing the SPP's on your goblins.  It was something I never figured out, how to make better use of my goblins.
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Offline Gimli

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2013, 11:37:23 AM »
That's been my experience with goblins as well.  In theory it would nice to have a bunch of heavily mutated goblins who can go anywhere and do anything (e.g. two heads + big hand, two heads and horns, etc.) but I find that the natural scorer on an Underworld team is the Skaven Thrower.  Sure Hands and MA7.   Getting the ball to a goblin doesn't usually make sense.  (Now if they had given UW teams skinks, THAT would have been interesting).   

Having a pair of Claw/MB Blitzers early on can even things up a bit, but they are targets, and once they are out you are pretty much defenseless.  On the other hand, I have had a few fun games where my Claw/MB Blitzers tear up a bash team badly, and give me the time, peace and quiet to score.   Goblins, epecially with two heads, do let you move a bunch of them through the other player's line, and reposition in an unexpected way, but the laws of probability usually bring an end to the party pretty quick with failed dodge rolls. 

Offline Lord Chaos

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2013, 12:42:25 PM »
Well a tier 5 coach like Trent can turn a Dark Elf team into a tier 3 team so......
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Offline Rimmer

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2013, 01:12:51 PM »
You can check out this guide

http://www.plasmoids.dk/bbowl/playbooks/Underworld.pdf

plasmoid contributed to it and he is a great underworld coach.

Anyway, I say go for it.  It is always great to see more lower tier teams in play.  I love the varity.  I also think trying these types of teams is great for any more experienced coach.  It helps you develop as a coach and see how other teams play, especially if you are looking for a challenge.

It has nothing to do with the fact I am playing dwarves next season  :D
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Offline Blammaham

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2013, 02:05:25 PM »
That's an interesting read.  I'm a bit surprised that side step isn't a more mentioned early skill option to keep the Goblins alive.  The mutations are great but I think that the ol' standbys to keep the Goblins around a bit longer to get those cool mutations might be the way to go, especially in Thunderbowl where there isn't anyplace to hide. S.

Offline Harbinger

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2013, 07:59:02 PM »
I played them for 1 season and 1 Underbowl match; the Nightsiders

My last match caused my teem to incur most of the stat damage you see. I didn't lose that many players to death, but the team is very fragile. I lost the troll in my 7th match of the season and bought another just before my 10th.  I really enjoyed playing the team but I can't say I was a decent coach at the time. I might try them again but for now I'm going to stick with Teir 1. Good Luck Murray

Offline Majyk (Wholly HighstepperZ / Drunk Hellmoots)

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Re: Underworld - Is it a Tier III team?
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2013, 02:55:41 AM »
Here are the B-Div(previously C-Div winners with a Rookie UW team) leading 3DB Highlander League Durdfort Demons.

They don't win flashily, but they do win...often.
(press the green D's beside each opponent's name and you can get a replay of the game that you can FF or RW, go fast or slow.

It is definitely coaching style, but yeah, they can play some BB!
)

 

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